| 13 July 2009 |
 |
 comments: 95
The Mole’s having a rant. In the latest Compleat Golfer, the editors tried to give a balanced argument, both for and against virtual clubs, but as a full playing member of a traditional club who spends a bucket-load on membership fees, The Mole thinks that something needs to be done to put a stop to the madness.
To quote from the Compleat Golfer article: “What we now refer to, incorrectly, as virtual clubs are any number of ‘membership broker’ schemes. Put simply, marketing agents go to golf clubs that need members and then put a cunning system in place to attract new members to the club at a very low fee. The whole thing started with Skukuza GC that had more giraffe than members roaming its fairways and was looking to increase its base. It worked rather well, and Skukuza now boasts a large number of affiliated members – the majority of whom have never, and probably will never, play the course. Spot the problem. When a fair number of old club members in areas like Gauteng resigned from clubs like Wanderers, joined Skukuza for a couple of hundred bucks and then pitched up for their weekly game demanding affiliated visitor rates, that was a problem. Cue controversy, anger and frustration.” Damn right! I pay a fortune in membership fees, but then I have to compete against Joe Soap from Nęrensrus for a tee-off time – and he’s paying the same as I am for the privilege! “Since clubs aren’t required to indicate on the NGN cards they issue whether someone is a full playing (aka paying) member or some other limited form of member, everyone’s the same in the eyes of a club being visited. What’s more, when you join one of these clubs at a vastly reduced annual rate, you are probably not going to play there much, or participate in club life, hang out at the 19th, etc. You will also probably not be allowed to play in club championships, have the right to vote and be subject to whatever other restrictions the club decides to impose. And, in most cases, you will be in a class of membership defined as something like ‘associated’ and you will pay either reduced or affiliated visitor greenfees at your ‘home’ club. Basically, the club is allowing you to use it in order to get a handicap and an affiliation, simple as that. So as a ‘virtual’ member of this ilk, don’t expect a warm welcome from golfers who are actually full members of clubs, paying a couple of grand a year for the privilege.” No AGM? Big deal – I’m more concerned with the idea that pseudo-members get to pay affiliated rates. “Here’s the counter-argument: surely these membership schemes are just good business? Surely the smaller clubs have a right to create a category of membership that will at least contribute to their running costs? And don’t they encourage more people to play golf, book tee times all over the place and generally expand and grow golf as a whole in South Africa? Welcome to a great argument for the 19th hole – and one that’s not going to be resolved in the near future. These are muddy waters indeed in which we find ourselves.” You said it, pal. Yes, these clubs may be ‘wallet-friendly’ and could be a way to grow the game, but that’s like trying to end world hunger by dishing out McDonald’s burgers. All you end up with is an obese, unhealthy, diabetic world – ie another problem. Likewise, creating a whole new classification of ‘not-quite-golfers’ is hardly growing the game in a meaningful way.
Are you a member of a virtual club? The Mole wants to know what you think.
Reader comments: (95)
Give me a handicap...
That's all I want, even if I had an NGN card that said "Occasional GOlfer - Charge Full Fees" I'd be happy. At this stage the only way to achieve this is through "Virtual Membership". Joining Benoni CC would see me forking out an averaged R800/round - nuts.
posted by: Wayne on 2009/12/29
PMG not so bad
Although i am not a member of play more golf i have many friend who are, it seems the people against PMG dont realize how little PMG membership actually gets you, As a member of PMG you have to book online and at least 2 weeks in advance as real clubs only allocate a certain amount of tee times to PMG, so they do not compete for your tee time bookings, they get a handicap card and a week day "membership" at one of three clubs in the JHB area. this is clever by the cluba as not many people can take the time out in the week to make use of this, and over weekends they pay regular visitors rates unless booked over play more golf, whick is close on immpossible as far as i have seen
posted by: ryan on 2009/09/13
I am for irtual membership
For many years golf has always been a sport for the elite and I cannot help but wonder if this debate has something to do with the fact that more black people have taken to golf as a social sport. Let's face it..you see more black people on the courses than white lately. Some of them have full memberships and most are virtual members and the reason is simple..."They don't have R10k for full memberships". Then do you descriminate because they can't afford R10k? No..because if you do it will be unconstitutional. I for one am a social golfer and I am a full member of a club but my friends cannot afford it and i want to play with them. If my club told me I could not invite my friends for a round of golf on Sunday afternoon; I will leave. The clubs need to realise that there is now bigger demand and should start operating like businesses.
posted by: Darkie on 2009/09/03
Keep virtual clubs but stop the freeloaders.
What this debate is missing is the point about how "affiliation" was originally designed to work. Golf courses cost huge amounts of money to create and maintain. The Clubs use various methods of income generation to keep fees for members at a reasonable level. The notion of an "Affiliation fee" was based on the fact that Club A would acknowledge that a member of Club B had paid an annual membership fee to his club, and as a contributor to a (real) club, was entitled to a discount when playing away, on that basis that many members of any Club will play reciprocal rounds with friends at other clubs, or when away from their home town."Virtual Clubs" take advantage of this by wanting their members to be able pay "Affiliated" fees to play while not contributing any other fees to a Club anywhere.These Virtual Clubs are a result of the needs of occasional golfers who play a few rounds of golf a year, but want an official Handicap, but have been hijacked by Club members who see this loophole as a cheaper way to play golf (and be effectively subsidised by the fee paying members).So lets take a leaf out of the Cellphone industry's book. They have clients on Contract (members) who pay a monthy cost (membership fee) and lower cost per call minute (round of golf) than the "pay-as-you go" client.So let the Virtual Clubs fulfill the role of managing their members handicaps (for which they are paid a fee by the member), and then let the members of the "virtual clubs" pay the FULL visitors fee when playing at a "real club". That way it is still a saving for the occasional player, and stops the guy who is just trying to avoid paying a members fee to a Club.Unless we do this there will be no need for anyone to be a member of a club, BUT it will cost R400 or 500 a round to play your local 18 holer.
posted by: Mike AS on 2009/09/02
Further response to PMG
To those going on about PMG being listed as club on NGN, wow - you really are as dumb you sound. Firstly, NGN can barely keep running long enough to get handicaps calculated correctly and you use them as a source of reference. Secondly, it's obvious you cannot read, because PMG members are not part of SAGA unless they are members of a REAL club through one of the brokered deals. I pay exactly the same for my 4-day membership at my club, through PMG, as I would have if I could have received that membership directly from the club. I get a handicap for my money, not voting rights, not competition rights etc. My handicap is kept by my club and not by PMG. My black NGN card shows the name of my club - not PMG. Thirdly, the brunt of the R1.5m referred to is NOT generated by these memberships, but by the PMG members booking rounds through the PMG system on these courses. PMG is thus not a Virtual Club but is a broker for memberships and rounds of golf.
posted by: JM on 2009/08/22
Goodbye Virtual Clubs
Well, Skukuza Golf Club has been threatened by NGN to cancel all Global Handicaps (purely a marketing company on behalf of Skukuza) members from their books, else get sued by NGN. Skukuza bent over and now don't take outside memberships and just cancelled all paid up members. If NGN has this much clout, wait for them to start nailing real "Virtual clubs". No response from the Union, nor SAGA. Who is in charge of South African Golf?????? Paul Smulders, you're one sneaky ********
posted by: Disgusted on 2009/08/18
Value for money
This year I decided to join another club as I could not justify paying nearly R10K per annum. My new club went out of their way to welcome me as a member and although a longer drive each weekend I must say I look forward to play. Yes the club does not have a 7 star clubhouse or a Proshop stocked with the latest equipment but the golf remains a good test. I played at my old course last month and must admit, I should have move a long time ago. They are now rebuilding their bunkers to improve drainage at huge costs and will increase their membership fees. This on a course which floods after 5 millimeters of rain. At my old club non members and virtual club members are not really welcome where at my current club they are. I enjoy my golf more and are saving a lot on my previous fees.
posted by: Johan L on 2009/07/27
Yes to Virtual
Some years ago, while living in the Lowveld, I worked out that membership of White River Counctry Club would only become financially viable if I played more than once a week. As I played less than this it was cheaper to pay visitors fees. The let down was not having a handicap and having to play off 18 when my true handicap was then around 24 when entering charity golf days, and I consequently often won the prise for most golf! I now live in Pretoria and with virtual membership, I now gain a handicap, and play irregularly at different clubs, which adds variety and new challenges. Some may abuse the system, but for most of us virtual players we are not doing anyone out of anything!
posted by: Mark Long on 2009/07/22
Response 2 PMG
Quote :- A full list of the courses which we afilliate members to is available on our website: www.playmoregolfsa.co.zaand includes Eagle Canyon, Ebotse, Observatory etc. So what is different to what Global Handicaps does with Skukuza and Port St John.? I am at a total loss as to why there are different standards in this regard and supported by PMG nogal? Where is the honesty and ethics? And the clubs accept 1 VC as ok but not another? I respectfully request SAGA to get a ruling here as this is now becoming a circus!
posted by: Ben on 2009/07/20
PMG
Stephan, PMG is officialy registered as a golf club with the Gaunteng Union as per NGN. If this is incorrect, I would suggest you correct this as a matter of extreme urgency as it would appear your company is trying to get the best of both virtual worlds.I will keep checking the NGN website to see if you have corrected the misreprensation
posted by: JC on 2009/07/20
Response 2
JC that isn't correct. The playmoregolfsa with vodacom club is not active and we currently only affiliate members to actual golf courses. That it exists at all is a legacy issue from a time where we offered social handicaps (which we no longer do). A full list of the courses which we afilliate members to is available on our website: www.playmoregolfsa.co.zaand includes Eagle Canyon, Ebotse, Observatory etc. Obviously as result of this the member numbers of this club are not an accurate represenation of our member base and our contribution to the industry every month exceeds R1.5M as previously stated.
posted by: Stephen Reardon on 2009/07/20
Playmoregolf
Keep hiding the facts, PMG! On the NGN website under Central Gauteng Union we find the following entries (amongst many):- 28 Ohenimuri Country Club29 Parkview Golf Club30 Playmoregolfsa With Vodacom31 Randfontein Golf And Cc32 Randpark Club If playmoregolf is NOT a virtual, where can I acually find this golf property? Afterall, PMG is registered as a golf course on the SAGA approved NGN system. Also, you state that u contribute 1.5 bar per month to GolfSA. Sure? You only have 603 registered members on the NGN registered member list, which means each member is paying R 2487.00 per month or some R 29850.00 per year on golf games. WoW. Me thinks something wrong here.PMG is the only actual virtual club in SA and lets not get confused with the bull/
posted by: JC on 2009/07/20
Response from playmoregolfSA with vodacom
With reference to your article in the June issue titled “The Virtual World” we, at playmoregolfSA with vodacom, would like to make the following clarifications. There are several reasons why the playmoregolfSA with vodacom program is in no way, shape or form a virtual club. Precisely because of the referenced concern over virtual clubs it is essential that we clarify these points. The core proposition of playmoregolfSA with vodacom is the ability for its members to enjoy playing at 85 clubs across South Africa, 7 days a week at subsidised rates. The intention of the program is to provide golfers with the much needed platform of public (pay and play) facilities. At the same time we want to sustain, grow and develop clubs that are in desperate need of more rounds, greater membership and increased revenue. playmoregolfSA with vodacom also brokers a variety of golf club memberships to its member base. These offerings vary from weekday memberships to full golf club memberships with all associated privileges dependent on the member’s needs. As mentioned in the article we strictly adhere to our founding guideline that neither a current golf club member nor any golfer who has been a club member in the last two years may join our club membership option. Although we are in no way obligated to do this, we feel it necessary to limit non full membership with the view to growing the game of golf. Just as the game does, we rely on honesty and the declaration of the applicant to enforce this and definitely cancel membership if they are found to be in breach.Another core belief of playmoregolfSA with vodacom is that any golf club membership be taken up by a member in his/her home union. One of the reasons we have rapidly expanded our affiliated courses is to allow members to join a club as close as possible to their residence. We believe this is essential in enabling members to play and participate in their club. The desired result is the member playing at least three rounds a year at their home club. playmoregolfSA with vodacom currently makes over 35,000 rounds available every month, subsidising each round by more than R35. We currently run over 400 Sunday afternoon golf days as well as over 20 away trips per year and contribute over R1.5m to our associate clubs per month.
posted by: Stephen Reardon on 2009/07/20
10k for a goat track?
how on earth can Roodepoort of all places charge 10k for a year's membership? its rated a lowly 89th on golcentralsa.com :-othats exactly the reason why people join far off clubs, its more affordable. if you want to be a member of an exclusive club, wait for an invite to join, River Club or Leopard Creek, if not suck it up, if the club can't afford to exist without visitors then they will have to allow visitors, easy math.
posted by: Kalliemarie on 2009/07/19
How far away is virtual
I Have a golfclub in an area with a population of 2 ,yes 2 persons within 70km How far away or how near must a person be to be a virtual member Everynone will travel 45 minutes to 2 hours to the course. iF THEY WANT TO JOIN AND THEN PLAY ELSEWHERE WHY SHOULDNT THEY
posted by: vaughn tucker on 2009/07/18
Go Virtual Golf
Stan 14/7. You don't even know how to spell ettiquette, which makes me wonder if you practice it.To all the clubs that recognize they are actually a business and welcome VC members to restricted times i say well done. Charge the VC members more green fee than club members and maybe all culd benefit.The extra revenue could help to decrease membership fees for example
posted by: Paul on 2009/07/17
Weekdays
I agree with Leon C and I think most virtual members fall into that category. In any event VMs are only allowed to play certain weekdays and clubs (percentage wise) make more money out of virtual members than actual members - think gyms
posted by: AJ Nel on 2009/07/16
virtual members
what is the cost of virtual membership vs the cost of a wii machine?
posted by: john on 2009/07/16
do away with play more golf
play more golf falls into this category. if every member of a club threw in the towel , joined play more golf all clubs would close there doors overnight. the directors of play more golf ( who have no interest in golf ) would be laughing all the way to the bank. virtual clubs - play more golf - the same evil ( like cancer to golf ) golf is going to go bankrupt - just a matter of time! ag shame 1
posted by: harold stewart on 2009/07/16
Rething Golf Club Concept
I think it is about time that the golfing fraternity starts arriving in the 21 st century. The existence of virtual clubs show that there is another need than the old golf club idea. Virtual members more often than not do not use half of the facilities on offer and therefor feel they do not want to pay for it!
posted by: Chris Dreyer on 2009/07/15
Reply to virtual golfer
What I am saying is that if you reside in Gauteng or Durban or Capetown and you want grow your game to become a complete golfer and in the same time grow the game by joyning a club that wont be further than 80 to 100 kilometer from where you stay, you will find a affordable place to play and you will be able to pay off your subs. In the same time places like Springs,Delmas, Heidelberg, Umkomaas, Catoridge,Scotburgh,Richmont,Malmesbury,Wellington to name a few will recieve you with open arms.How big a ask is it to drive that distance to your club where you are a full member with reciprocity and rights to compete for monthly mugs and league selection. Come on guys, do your homework and strike a deal with one of these good clubs.And if you want to be a virtual golfer that is OK keep on playing until you decide it is time to take your game to the next level.Hope to see you soon at my club, and you are welcome to play on a Saturday at vissitors rates
posted by: Vic de Klerk Umkomaas on 2009/07/15
Virtual Golfer
Vic, unfortuanately if you join one of those out of the way clubs you will be a virtual golfer because you will be joining a club in an area you dont stay in, like if you stay in Johannesburg and join Skukuza GC, please understand that the only issue here is a financial one, if you live in Gauteng and join a club in Mpumalanga the local clubs get upset because your membership money is going to another club and the union gets upset because your money goes to another union, none of them give a thought about the strugling golf club or making golf better in this country it is all just about the money so lets stop all the BULL and tell it as it is please. as far as i am concerned it is your hard earned cash and you should be allowed to spend it where and how you wish.
posted by: Enough already on 2009/07/15
We have to find a way
When I started back in 1982 I could not afford membership but the passion to play had me driven to Benoni lake club to play 9 holes following the the afternoon competition field, and I was happy just to be able to play on a course and there were regulars like me. Needless to say if one love the game you will find yourself making a way and put it in your budget like your car and your house, and if it dont fit in then thats how it is. We all want to find a plan so that everybody can play and good players can be discovered. I suggest that we invite solutions and ideas on this problem, there must be a way that work. There are clubs that suffer which is not far off like Springs on the east rand and Umkomaas not too farr from Durban these are clubs with affordable rates and one may strike a deal to pay your subs monthly through the year lets go and look for the not far out of the way strugling clubs and create a win/win situation whilst we join a real club and grow yourself and the game. Then you discover the league matchplay, club champs, monthly mug and the complete works of the game. Lets take a positive approach and find a solution and accomodate all golf lovers
posted by: Vic de Klerk Umkomaas on 2009/07/15
We have to find a way
When I started back in 1982 I could not afford membership but the passion to play had me driven to Benoni lake club to play 9 holes following the the afternoon competition field, and I was happy just to be able to play on a course and there were regulars like me. Needless to say if one love the game you will find yourself making a way and put it in your budget like your car and your house, and if it dont fit in then thats how it is. We all want to find a plan so that everybody can play and good players can be discovered. I suggest that we invite solutions and ideas on this problem, there must be a way that work. There are clubs that suffer which is not far off like Springs on the east rand and Umkomaas not too farr from Durban these are clubs with affordable rates and one may strike a deal to pay your subs monthly through the year lets go and look for the not far out of the way strugling clubs and create a win/win situation whilst we join a real club and grow yourself and the game. Then you discover the league matchplay, club champs, monthly mug and the complete works of the game. Lets take a positive approach and find a solution and accomodate all golf lovers
posted by: Vic de Klerk Umkomaas on 2009/07/15
Virtual Members
In response to David, what a dumb thig to say play there virtual golf course. First of all if you take away the money your club gets in green fees from the virtual and corporate golfer and that shortfall had to be paid by you the "Traditional Member" just think how much more you would be paying for your golf so I suggest you think just a bit not too much we don't want you to strain yourself before you make comments like that, it is that backward mentality that is proving to contaminate golf in this country it seems we are the only country that has such a big issue with virtual golf clubs, in fact in the USA for argument sake one can create a virtual golf club directly with the Golf Association in which case the Golf club recieve nothing from the deal but then again they are business people
posted by: Amazed on 2009/07/14
Club Member For Sure
Play bowls? You are kidding. Golf Clubs income is 40* memebers, 60* visitors and you want to chase the visitors away? Wake up and understand the business dynamics.
posted by: Ivan on 2009/07/14
Nice to see some figure
"In total, the games registered by Skukuza members are 67 774. At an average of R200 per game thats R 13 554 800.00. Now take into account not every game has been registered (about half), so you're looking at way more than R 26 000 000 the clubs have earned from the "Virtual" members. Add their spending on halfway house and the compulsory pint at say R 50.00 per person that is an additional R 3 000 000, we get to R 29 000 000.00. That is income from people who were not members of clubs, plays once a month or less and never would have started playing if not for Virtual Clubs.And the clubs conveniently forget the number of virtual members, who have subsequently joined their local club, as they were beginning to enjoy golf"
posted by: Amazed on 2009/07/14
Clubs created their own problem
Clubs over-inflated tradition, the cost involved, and the snob-factor; just for a handicap. One day someone realised that there are thousands of people who enjoys the game casually and can't afford / buy into the snob factor. Im all for tradition and what clubs should represent - but they are driving people straight into the virtual clubs
posted by: Jeff on 2009/07/14
Club Member For Sure
To all these whingers who can not afford full membership; go play bowles or something. You can not drive a Maserati and complain about the price of petrol.
posted by: Moss on 2009/07/14
No
Golf clubs are around because of Membership and these virtual clubs should be allowed to play at our clubs but certainly not at a reduced rate. They should pay a full visitors or otherwise play there "Virtual Golf course". It can cost any member from R60.00 - R230. Per week to be a member of a course, without even playing. Then they must still pay green fees and comp fees. So tell me why now should virtual golfers get a better Price????????
posted by: David on 2009/07/14
Virtually a solution
Reading between the lines the cost associated in obtaining an offical handicap is the cost of club membership. Create an annual handicap membership at the club with no other club privlages. Charge for the complete handicap/admin service. Extra revenue.In all probability this will attract golfers to yor club who may end up to be full time members. Bottom line is the cost to become a virtual member will end up as your clubs profit. I will not join a vitual club the other side of Africa if I could be handicaped locally.Both problems solved
posted by: Dave on 2009/07/14
I don't see the problem
I really don't get what people are complaining about. When you join a club, a real club as a full member, you play the course you joined for a much reduced price. Even less than the affiliated or virtual members. So you, as full member, do get a huge discount on your gamefees at your home course. This does not benefit a virtual member. You, as full member, also contribute exactly the same to a different club than the virtual member. You pay the same fees. Seems to me this is the argument, but the point is stupid. You pay more for membership at your home club and pay far less to play. You pay no membership at a different club and pay the same as the virtual member. Where, pray tell, is the problem.Also, to the person who mentioned he played behin a bunch of hacker. Sir, I can give you just as many stories of playing behind members of clubs I visit where the hit huge chunks out of the fairways without repairing it, do not rake bunkers, leave pitchmarks on the greens and ride their carts all over the pace. Being a member of a club does not mean you cannot act like a hooligan.
posted by: JM on 2009/07/14
GROW THE GAME
Virtual clubs is a must.We all love the game so let's enjoy the game.If you are unable to pay the Club fees,pay them if you cant then join a virtual club we all have the right to enjoy the game...
posted by: Stefan on 2009/07/14
Virtual **way to go
A low maintained course like Zwartkop CC will make all members go the virtual route eventually. It is all about value for money
posted by: Virtual de Lux on 2009/07/14
respect members
golf club directors,managers.etc must be more friendly with members and visitors. they must treat there members the same way you would treat any customer. if it was not for the members they would not have a job in the first place.members will not leave a club if you make them feel welcome.
posted by: pete on 2009/07/14
Virtual - great idea!
Hi Mole - the opportunity to belong to a club / organistion and be able to "legally" participate in competitions with an official handicap is the appeal of the structure for me. Are people abusing it? I'm sure they are! But for me, I look forward to joining a virtual club as I no longer play 4- 6 times a month, it's closer to 4 - 6 times in 6 months. Do I want to give up a sport I've played for 20 odd years, because I can no longer justify the expense of full membership? No way! What are the options? Maybe the virtual clubs should have a parameter in place to limit the amount of rounds played within a year.
posted by: Shaun on 2009/07/14
What is the real problem
It is amazing but I am hearing a lot of people complaining about not being able to play golf at the home club because it is fully booked by corporate days well I can vouch for that I was a member of a prestiges club in JHB and found it virtualy imposible to get to play at my home club on a Saturday which was told to me was a members day, members could not nvite friends to play on a Saturday because of this members only however on many occasion they would have Corporate days on the Saturday and the members field was basically cut in half because of these pratices I decided to join another club and the same thing happened there in fact the members were asked to vacate the bar for a private function on one occasion and for me that was the final straw so when you bunch of sheep talk about enjoying your 10k per year benefits don't make me laugh they have your 10k and still treat you like dirt no wonder people are joining virtual clubs and as soon as my membership expires I will be one of them.
posted by: Peed off Club member on 2009/07/14
An elitist mole???
Mole... who would have figured you for a stuck-up elitist pr1ck. You are in the fortunate position where you earn your living through golf. You probably play at least 2-3 times per week. Half the games you play, you probably don't even pay for. So, yes, you would want to join a club and give back to the sport (and keep your image intact). However, for us mere mortals, it is too much to expect us to pay R5-10k per year so we can have our weekly or even fortnightly game. To jb (Ban the lot). Bad etiquette and club membership are in no way connected. Most of my mates are virtual members and we do know how to look after a course. Just as well you do not have the final say, or we would all be looking for a new way to entertain ourselves. As long as the big courses continue to overcharge, I'm all for virtual courses that are connected to a small, country course who appreciate the extra income for course improvement.
posted by: rob on 2009/07/14
An elitist mole???
Mole... who would have figured you for a stuck-up elitist pr1ck. You are in the fortunate position where you earn your living through golf. You probably play at least 2-3 times per week. Half the games you play, you probably don't even pay for. So, yes, you would want to join a club and give back to the sport (and keep your image intact). However, for us mere mortals, it is too much to expect us to pay R5-10k per year so we can have our weekly or even fortnightly game. To jb (Ban the lot). Bad etiquette and club membership are in no way connected. Most of my mates are virtual members and we do know how to look after a course. Just as well you do not have the final say, or we would all be looking for a new way to entertain ourselves. As long as the big courses
posted by: rob on 2009/07/14
Charge the same as Virtual Memebrship
Hey, the whole problem is that clubs charge their members more and more, yet you cannot get a game at your own club unless you book weeks in advance. Wanderers is a good case in point. Membership is astronomical and yet the only way to book a game on Saturday is to be at the club the previous (a week and a day!) Friday night. And the week is booked wall to wall with corporate days. So very early tee-off, or no game. Sorry for you! Now if Wanderers dropped membership to R 1 000 per annum, thousands of “virtual” members would join and “active” members would enjoy the benefits of the much lower membership fee. Still no games, but at a cheaper price!
posted by: Lock Lemming on 2009/07/14
Love, Hate relationship with a twist
Yes we love to have virtual members during the week, but hate to have them over the weekend, that is the general attitude of the Full members to that of the Virtual memberS. We are crippling the growth of golf by making membership fees so high, the majority of great golfers are virtual members, who cannot afford such high membership fees. Golf courses reduce your member rates. The attitude of saying, if we reduce our rates then we will have all sorts at our club. Member fees where never that high. Was this a ploy to keep black people out? just a question,the growing number of black golfers is amazing,who I would say are the majority virtual members(correct me if i am wrong) so if this has sparked the debate regarding virtual and full then check your attitude. It is not your right to be a member at a prestige golf club but more a privilege, we as virtual golfers are here to stay get used to it...!!!!
posted by: Garth M on 2009/07/14
Variety of virtual
Mole talks about members having to compete with VC players for tee times - however, most clubs offer very limited access to the course for VC players - take a look at the time slots available to playmoregolf members at KZN courses - most offer 4 morning and/or 4 midday fourballs. If not taken up by PMG members, those time slots revert to the course, and I know many of these slots are released back to the home club. Considering there must be about 50 fourballs available each day (7am onwards, 7 fourballs an hour until 2pm, can fit in more in summer!) on a course, how it is possible that members can't book a round? Corporate days are the bigger problem, with regard to getting a round of golf in, and etiquette, pace of play, course treatments - raking of bunkers, repairing divots, etc - but they bring in much larger revenue, so no one whinges at the hand that's feeding them (very well, in certain cases).Every club needs to be a profit-making enterprise, and the way they do that is by accepting the corporate days and VC members to boost overall income. It's a matter of necessity. Clubs who are confident of their financial status have every right, at their AGM, vote to not enter into partnerships with virtual clubs of any sort. I'm a relative novice and had it not been for playmoregolf I wouldn't have a handicap which I feel is accurate, having experienced a wide variety of courses ... you often see these 'one-course wonders' who can shoot par at, say, Port Shepstone, but can't break 80 at Durban Country Club.Having learnt the basics of the game, many of the rules, and all of the etiquette through my membership of PMG, I have gone from being a hacker to a golfer who contributes to a dozen different courses each year. Now, which club would rather have an empty tee-time and no revenue from their 7.36am slot on a Monday, rather than R125x4 which would cover the running costs of part of that day's overheads?Clubs are struggling and even non-members of any club - not even VC - can find many specials in greater Durban - Bluff R40 on a Monday, Cato R60 any weekday, Umkomaas R47 on a Tuesday special, Papwa, Windsor and many others too - they wouldn't do it if there wasn't a need to raise extra capital.When I get to single figures - I am off 15 right now - and feel that I could make it playing in a league side, I will join a club and make more use of the facilities ... and then I will ***** at the costs of membership and how all these young whippersnappers are stuffing up my elite club by taking all the tee times. Until then, VC is the way to go.
posted by: Simon on 2009/07/14
We Welcome Virtual Members
A club with business sense ! Will wonders never cease...
posted by: John on 2009/07/14
We Welcome Virtual Members
At our club, and according to our club rules, visitors are not allowed to play on weekends. So while we are working during the week, enjoying our benefits from the real club on weekends, your bad guys, the virtual members, keep money flowing in during the week. Welcome guys! And if your club is not doing that, change the rules, manage the situation. To an extent, I want to say to the moaners: Get a life!
posted by: Stefan on 2009/07/14
Real Clubs caused their own trouble
What does the so-called real club offer for R5k/annum? That is not the prime income either - so get people to play more golf as you make a killing at halfway house and on the 19th anyway with some more ridiculous prices... Stop your "Africa mentality", the "you owe us" mentality and start operating like a real business! Skukuza (And i am not a virtual member) is not a virtual club - go and check for yourself. The 'play-more-golf' option which is part of the Pro Shop (or the other way around), is a virtual group. The Gary Player Golf Experience at the Vodacom World of Golf supports that, so what is your problem? My message to the 'real clubs' is Start to operate like a Real Business. Stop the blame game and make it happen
posted by: Dr C on 2009/07/14
Virtual Memberships ?
I can think of many clubs that have virtual memberships but do not advertise the fact.BadplaasBlyvooruitzichtjust spring to mind but I know of at least 30 on the coast.So pot calling the kettle black?
posted by: Ben on 2009/07/14
Virtual Members
I have read the comments posted and I think that the problem is not the type of memberships being sold but rather the Golf Clubs inability to opperate as a business, in this economic climate we find ourselves in business no longer walks in through the front door and while clubs are pleading poverty I see very little done to promote the club or to generate extra income it is much easier to just put up the membership fees and ***** about virtual clubs being the reason your members are leaving, simply because they are doing a much better job at attracting more members and filling up the courses (Your course included). It is high time that golf clubs stop using the Virtual member as an excuse and actively start marketing and as far as not allowing these member to play golf or not to recognise there affiliation this is even more stupid these golfers make up a huge portion of the green fees recieved by golf club and to turn that income down is rediculous but shows the business skills at club level. I honestly believe that these virtual memberships offer no threat to the clubs as the people that join them for the most part would have left the club anyway but lets not forget that a lot of golfers that start out with a virtual membership then join a club that there friends are members of and in so doing feed new member into the system.
posted by: Rick on 2009/07/14
The root of all evil? You must be kidding
Here are some statistics for all clubs thinking "Virtual" members are sucking the life out of respectable clubs.We have taken the number of games our members have played at from 7 random clubs that Skukuza members have played at.Below you will see Club Name - Games Played - Rands club earned @ per game is around R200Wanderers - 588 games - R117 600.00CMR - 841 games - R 168 200.00Randpark - 1321 games - R264 200.00Silver Lakes - 560 games - R112 000.00Nelspruit - 487 games - R97 400.00Krugersdorp - 806 games - R161 200.00Leeuwkop - 1345 games - R269 000.00In total, the games registered by Skukuza members are 67 774. At an average of R200 per game thats R 13 554 800.00Now take into account not every game has been registered (about half), so you're looking at way more than R 26 000 000 the clubs have earned from the "Virtual" members.Add their spending on halfway house and the compulsary pint at say R 50.00 per person that is an additional R 3 000 000, we get to R 29 000 000That is income from people who were not members of clubs, plays once a month or less and never would have started playing if not for Virtual Clubs.And the clubs conveniently forget the number of virtual members, who have subsequently joined their local club, as they were beginning to enjoy golf.If that doesn't pay for some upkeep of the golf courses, I don't know what does.
posted by: Chris Pols on 2009/07/14
Away with affiliation fees....
I definitely agree with DBS. Visitors are visitors, irrespective! No privaleges for "affilliated members"....members of WHAT? And if they are only playing 10 games a year, what's an additional R100 per game when you're saving R5000. Make membership fashionable again and allow guests of members to appreciate the privalege of playing your course once or twice a year!
posted by: Mel on 2009/07/14
Try something New.
How about Sunday membership? Many clubs have spare capacity on Sundays.R1000 p/a (R83.00 p/m)and normal greenfees for a "one day member" and also being being handicapped at the club.The club should also let you participate in the annual club champs.30 such members will contribute R 30 000 towards the upkeep of the course. Bar takings etc. will be a bonus!The card system issued by most clubs can cater for special conditions. should these members want to play on any other day they should pay visitors fees.
posted by: John (Jayem) on 2009/07/14
Both sides
I am a full member of a local club and I can see your point. The problem I have is that my wife probably plays 6 times a year and I cannot justify paying thousands of rands for her if she is only going to play this often. She has to have a official handicap and as such the VC's are a great idea.
posted by: Jason on 2009/07/14
No comments from Ladies!
Obviously the cheaper membership rates for ladies means they dont have to join virtual clubs. Or am I wrong?
posted by: Gill on 2009/07/14
Times have changed
Why would you want to play only one course for an entire year or even longer?SA has so many great courses.It tests your golfing skills far more playing different courses than one 10k course every week.VC's make it possible for me to play weekly at different clubs,improving my golf,supporting different clubs,and not breaking the bank.If you don't adjust with the times, don't complain that your paying 5k more than me on golf but only playing one course-golf isn't a marriage.
posted by: Roland on 2009/07/14
Mike (Virtual Member)
Ag old Mike you sound like you don't have any friends at any clubs and now you are sour with the whole world. Get or buy a new attitude and maybe you would get along with people and visiting golf clubs. If you are a loyal member the club will treat you great and you would feel much better. Virtual golf members there is a place for you but you need to pay dubble the amount that your club member is paying. The club member is paying a huge ammount yearly and when he/she is playing would have the previliage to get a tee off time in front of a virtual member. Virtual members playing at my club on Saturday mornings do not care about the club don't fix pitch marks and don't rake the bunkers because they not part of the club. Get golf eticket and maybe we as members will be more friendly to you and will acept you.
posted by: Stan on 2009/07/14
Virtual club member
Due to family committments i do not play golf on weekends. As i understand it, you can only play on weekends if you are a full member of that club. So how can members so it is these members that take away their tee times. I use my membership to play onyl int he weeks at various courses mainly for business reasons. i have NEVER had an issue where the course is fully booked as members want to use the course. I also know where to play on what days as some courses block times for members. The extra income i bring in is surely only thus benefitting the club. I agree that members are important to be able to maintain the course but my money also does this. Virtual clubs are designed to be there for people like me and thousnads of others who do not play regularly nor on weekends. If clubs do not want virtual club visitors, then they should also decline corporate days. See how much income they then lose. Full members of clubs do get the benfit of playing on weekends so let us visit your club during the week when the courses are virtually empty and provide your club with extra income.
posted by: rob on 2009/07/14
Some Virtual Golfer Are Actual solid Single Figure Handicaps
Some Virtual Golfer can knock it 270m to 300m play off single figures and have better etiqutte than most members !!! Manners and Etiquette have nothing to do with what club you are from so dont argue that point it's pathetic
posted by: Virtual Member 3 Handicap on 2009/07/14
Virtual vs Real
I am a 'virtual' member and my father is a 'real' member but we both play the same courses twice a week and neither of them are his home course because it's too expensive! The 'virtual' membership is for the handicap only and members are welcome to go to their home course and play. I play 3 times a week at the cheapest course I can find (because of the economic situation) and play competitions with my dad on Saturdays but we still don't play at his home club so what would be the point of me paying thousands of rands for the same benefit I get for hundreds? The 'virtual' system is ingenius and is working for the smaller clubs and, instead of complaining, the bigger clubs should take a lesson from these clubs and maybe start introducing their own differing rates for members who actually want to play golf because of the sport instead of just to belong to some club where they think they are special. If all goes well, my son will also be a 'virtual' member as I am certainly not going to lay out thousands for him to play weekly when he too also plays the cheapest courses because of the prices of green fees!
posted by: Mike P on 2009/07/14
Golf for the RICH
I will join any club that gives me affordable rates and possibly terms to pay my subs in these tough times. At my previous club, Uitenhage, where I was an active member I tried to convince them to allow me to pay my fees monthly or even quarterly when tough times got me down and their unwillingness made a few of my friends not renew their memberships. So if a virtual club offers me a way to play affordable golf. so be it. I will still be "active" at my local clubs' 19th hole!
posted by: Rickus Barnard on 2009/07/14
Treat us better!
I've been a member Roodepoort for 4 years. I paid R5k to join, and around R6k annual subs. This years annual subs were just under R10k! - this is just stupid. I have to play at least once a week at my home club to get my money's worth - who has time for that when you're working full time. Also, I can never get a Saturday morning t-off - even if I phone on the Tuesday first thing. Block bookings by the old boys club makes it impossible for paying members like myself! So, what do I get for my R10k ?!? Not much I'm afraid! Now, the problem is, I can't move to another club, 'cause joining fees of around R5k plus subs of R5k (this is still cheap) gets me back to R10k - with probably the same issues I had at Roodepoort. So enter virtual clubs - a viable solution to a person like me. Golf clubs - change your strategy, for goodness sake, instead of throwing stones at fair competition!
posted by: Willem on 2009/07/14
Clubs Disrespect Members - The Real Problem
I was a full member of a club for 11 years and played every saturday contributing to salaries, green fee's, food and beverage etc. We were regularly faced with semi/full time sheets coming out with block bookings and visiting groups as well as the clasic old school members who had their "special prebooked times" Special favours were done for members who were mates with management corporate meberships and half rate scheme's ... one problem they got preference to full members. Seems like course's treat full members (excluding commitee elite) like they should be grateful for the privelage to play. Old school bull S*#T of special parking for commitee members and management what a joke I was taught that paying customers should be treated better than staff. Club's are ****ed because their monopoly of prices fixing and crazy membership fee's for absolutely no privelage is coming to an end thanks to innovative healthy marketing. Maybe clubs should catch a wake up in these economic times people will always pay for percieved value but you tell me what value do clubs offer for a R6500 membership. I feel nothing for golf clubs who's attitudes stink, it is a service industry but you would think that ... How many people out their have showed at a club and been treated like you are not good enough to be their by club pro's, little boys in the proshop and management they should be glad to have a full field and treat everyone like paying customers !!!
posted by: Ex Ripped off member on 2009/07/14
Virtual member
when membership prices become realistic i will join a club. Western cape clubs are a rip off and hence I am a virtual member as I only play 10-12 times a year. The clubs also treat golfers like sh*t and always overbook. Stuff them!!!
posted by: Mike on 2009/07/14
Yes and No
Yes to the promotion of golf to the masses. No to the stuck-up-apartheid-era-rich-elite-look-down-upon-the-rest-alcoholic-bastards-who-think-they-can-play-golf.Years ago as a youngster, golf was only afforded to the rich kids and businessmen, not always those with talent. Three years ago I requested from no less than 25 clubs in JHB and PTA area on their joining fees and annual fees. Astonishingly, the older you are the more expensive the joining fee becomes. And what does the joining and annual fees give me... some include your green fees in the annual fees, others not. Do I have a personal locker or do I have to pay extra for this as well? I have to pay extra for polishing my shoes? I still have to pay per bucket to use the driving range? I still pay the same for my lunch at halfway house, I still pay for my cart, I still pay for a caddy, I still pay for my beer at the 19th! I can use the showers for free and luckily I don't have to pay for the toilets....So what does golf membership offer me????Can the MOLE please clear this up for me?I have played golf on many courses in the whole of South Africa, and found the bastards with the worst attitudes and worst golf etiquette being the "mister-I-own-the-F$*^ng-golf-course" members. They too leave pitch marks, leave divots, dont rake bunkers, they too are drunkards at the 19th, they stink too after a round,...I'm all for "virtual" golf membership, but I do promote a more controlled system. I have many ideas on this, we can talk a lot on this...I don't care for the handicap, I don't play competitions. But I do believe golf is extremely expensive for this economy... and too expensive for the quality courses provided. Paying the same rates for wanderers versus Gary Player just does not cut it.!!! or the same for a Randpark versus a CMR.Worst case, if courses don't want outside players, have an AGM and VOTE to make it a private club like THE RIVER CLUB, then fund yourself, have a go at it! Do you even know what it takes to run a golf course?
posted by: Morne Bester on 2009/07/13
Golf Clubs should become a bussiness
I feel that golf clubs have for too long got away with an attidude which has no relationship to good bussiness principles, by focussing on tradition, club spirit and prestige, and loosing the realities of proper market research, affordability for their market and marketing flexibility to be able to adapt fees and cost when required. Instead they try unrealistically to compete by spending fortunes on obtaining ratings which they cannot sustain. Instead they should remain adaptable to adjust their expenses to their current income potential, and to be able to be flexible enough to do so without long winded committee procedures.
posted by: Francois Malherbe on 2009/07/13
Not a VM but might be soon
I am in exactly the same situation as Leon C with a few corporate or tour games per year. I was a full member at my local club for 5yrs+ but at around R5k, it is just not worth the cost for the amount of golf I play. But now I'm not comfortable competing in golf days when invited because I'm not official. I still enjoy the few rounds I do play but am now off golf completely because of this predicament. So what are my options or is the implication that social golfers who wish to be official (to help avoid a real scourge - ringers!!) can only do so paying mega subs. I can also recall reading articles examinig why golf is considered an elitist sport and how can golf attract more grass roots players etc? No surpise when you consider the Mole's reaction. Surely this is not the message golf as a sport wants to send? I take the point about "hackers" damaging the course and poor etiquette etc. but this is not a new problem. Virtual sounds good to me!!
posted by: APB on 2009/07/13
virtual golf
Iagree.Virtual chairmen are stealing club money.Stop them.
posted by: M.M.P on 2009/07/13
virtual golf ?
Country membership yes. Virtual golf NO! With anybody being able to start a virtual club, with no overheads or course maintenance they are the ones putting virtual members money into their pockets and away from clubs.This should not be allowed. These virtual clubs make block booking especially in KZN and are making club members angry.I think all club comittee's should stand together and not allow virtual golf at their clubs!!!
posted by: Peter on 2009/07/13
someone needs to PAY the GREENKEEPER
It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. The steady migration from golf club membership to "virtual" clubs and the ever increasing club membership costs and fees are a self fulfilling prophecy. Without "REAL" club members to pay the rent and grounds staff, not to mention a manager and even the barman and waiter, there will be no Golf course to play on. As members leave to join these "virtual" clubs, the burden is left on the remaining members to "carry the can". NOBODY LIKES LEACHES OF ANY KIND.Development golf will suffer when there are no courses to play on.As i don't believe criticism without suggestions are valid, I say, "LET THERE BE MORE MUNICIPAL COURSES" also, I detest the 'RAE's' of the world who says he can't afford the 20K for golf membership. WAKE UP BUDDY!!!!! CUT YOUR COAT ACCORDING TO YOUR CLOTH. There are always cheaper clubs. I would urge everybody, join a club, any club, just find the one that SUITE YOUR BUDGET, but join as a "full member" not a "virtual member". lets keep the golf clubs alive
posted by: Peter Nicholas on 2009/07/13
Stop complaining unless you can propose solutions!
I realise that Virtual Clubs may not be considered fair by many fulltime paying members of clubs, but then please propose an alternative solution. Many golfers, myself included, would like a handicap, and this is the only reason we join these virtual clubs. I feel that if there were cost-effective membership options which were tailored to suit those people who can only play 10 or so times a year, then this would probably result in the demise of the virtual clubs. Until then, if you require a handicap card, but are not willing to pay thousands of Rands for this, then virtual clubs are the only option. It also gets more people to participate in the sport, which is good for golf as a whole. Whether a discount should be given for members of virtual clubs is a valid concern. I think that one should be able to get a handicap card (without being linked to a specific club) at Rx per annum and then there should only be 3 categories of fees at all clubs, viz. Members, Members' Guests and Vistors (regardless of whether or not they are affiliated). The fee paid for the handicap facility could be used to improve the game and facilities in disadvantaged communities.
posted by: Mark V on 2009/07/13
They can swamp your 19th...
Allowing virtual members to your club encourages all sort of rif-raf to come an swamp your facility. I prefer to spend time in the 19th with real golfers
posted by: Jay Zed on 2009/07/13
Ban the lot
I am a full member at one of the best courses in jhb. I played this past Friday behind these virtual hackers and they left the bunkers unraked and did not repair much of their ptch maarks on the greens. I don't see why they should be allowed to play. They add no value to any golf club in my opinion. They are nothing but a PITA. They also have the attitude that keeping the course in shape is the greenkeeper's responsibility. If I had the final say, virtual clubs will play on virtual courses.
posted by: jb on 2009/07/13
Let supply and demand take over
"It's nothing personal, it's just business" I think that was accredited to the man with the best known hair style - Donald Trump. Surely it applies here as well. I wonder what those clubs who have members wanting to ban virtual club members from playing at "their" clubs, would have to pay, if there was no additional income from the affiliates, associates, or whatever you want to call them?
posted by: Chris Russell-Rockliff on 2009/07/13
Virtual Clubs
Once again the Mole has managed to make a mountain out of his hill. What we are facing is the typical economic response from the market. Clubs are too expensive for the majority to join and therefore find themselves in a situation where the members cannot afford to finance the club. Enter the "visitor". If a club can only attract visitors, we can charge them a fortune, because they aren't members and therefore cannot vote. Now along comes an enterprising bunch and make golf affordable for the masses. Why would members complain when these visitors pay for the facilities they are using. The answer is simple, don't allow visitors to use the facilities, i.e put your money where your mouth is.
posted by: Dave on 2009/07/13
Big YES for Vitual
I was a member of the Bramble Hill Golf Club when the owners of Fancourt decided to pull the rug from under our feet leaving us with no alternative but to join another club or go the virtual route.I am quite happy to be a member of the virtual club and I don't really care what happens to the owners of Fancourt or their precious ,snotty,stuck up club! For the amount of golf that we play L say "GO VIRTUAL ALL THE WAY'
posted by: Mark W on 2009/07/13
Condition of Course
Trevor has a point, I have played Skukuza since about 10 years ago and the course has improved, they have some fantastic greens now. They also have the problem of wild animals trashing their course so they have some extra costs to cover. This course should be one of the courses you have to play is SA. If the smaller out of town courses benefit from this a system has to be worked out to keep these courses in the condition we now find them. (I am a full member at Durbanville and so is my son of 9). When I last played Skukuza as a guest, I did not even have to pay for my round.
posted by: Warren on 2009/07/13
All about costs!!
I am a member of a "virtual club". I was a member of a golf club in Cape Town. When their annual membership shot up by 20*, i pulled out and joined this "virtual club" at less than 10* of the golf club fees. It allows me to play at affiliated rates with an official handicap and since i play only once a week, it makes more financial sense, especially in today's climate!! I love this game, so for me its all about affordability and being able to continue playing this awesome game!! I know it takes alot to maintain golf courses, but membership fees are just out of the reach of your "average Joe". I'm still paying affiliated rates at all golf courses, so i'm still contributing towards the upkeep of that specific golf course.
posted by: Riyaad on 2009/07/13
LOWER FEES
The Fancy estates said:We don't want visitors - we cater for our members" when one asked why such high playing fees. Now they need every round they can attract the boot is on the other foot! Work out ways to reduce fees so that more golfers play more often and stop banning those who otherwise cannot afford it!
posted by: Bruce on 2009/07/13
Yes, Yes for Virtual !!!
Mole you’re trying to bring elitism back to clubs. I hate that. For many years the holy golf attitude are rife amongst old school, bordering on the line of apartheid- Yes between have and have-nots. We need to attract more people to the game. By bring this sour "I paid to much " attitude back will only chase people away." The virtual clubs bring money to smaller clubs, make the game cheaper and even let you meet people from other clubs. It is high tide that all this arm chair moaners get of there chairs go out and make friends and not enemies.To all the Self-righteous golfers out there I hope this iterate you till you decide to change your attitude on the golf course.
posted by: Ves on 2009/07/13
Let them play on Virtual Courses
The answer is simple - ban these virtual colfers from the golf courses that we build and maintain at great cost. Let them play on Virtual golf courses - in their minds.
posted by: Ron on 2009/07/13
Wake up call for Golf Clubs
I raised this issue few years ago through Tee-to-Green. Guys the issue is golf clubs that have out priced themselves out of the market. Where is the market, the world of golf members, virtual golfers. Do you expect hard working family man to pay R20k for a golf membership when his family is struggling to make ends? Did you know that an average golfer plays golf once(maybe twice) a month, do the maths. Golf courses do not see themselves as business, one needs cash for running costs,etc. If you do not know your market (potential/new golfers) affordability you are doomed. If golf courses are serious about promoting the sport, getting golfers to play 5 times a week, improve cash flow, promoting loyalty of members, then a lot must be done. What they must do:1. Golf is sport, reduce fees to affordable levels, like other sports. You do not want golf fees to feel like tax, debt.2. Give discounts to those who book more playing times, and family package members.3. Have a sliding scale in terms of old members, membership is reduced as you continue as a member.4. Hire out facilities to social gatherings, weddings,etc.5. Local pro, offer free lessons to those new members who are starting to play golf and tie them to new membership.There are many interventions golf clubs can do to improve their operations. Instead, the see fee increases as the means to improve cas flow. They are simply killing the membeship and sport and promoting virtual clubs.
posted by: Rae on 2009/07/13
Wake up Mole
I am a member of Skukuza which you claim is a virtual club. I was one of the founder members of this organisation. I find it difficult to understand that clubs like the Wanderers refuse to acknowledge my membership at Skukuza, and yes I have booked there and walked out when I was told to pay full visitors fees due to being a member of a VIRTUAL club when not so long ago, Wanderers nearly offered Skukuza reciprocity but then backed away at the eleventh hour as they did not want 2000 memebers trapesing through their golf club. Who wouldnt want volumes of players coming through their doors. Clubs like Wanderers would rather cry wolf and say that the economy is so bad than have bags on the course. A player paying visitors fees in my opinion is better than no fees at all. I am sure that Wanderers accept Play more golf etc whom dont even have a club house to speak off yet refuse members from Skukuza. All Skukuza has done is make it affordable to be a member of a club, and yes, I have played the course on many occasion and have noticed a marked improvement in the course since it started attracting more members. Maybe the "Mole" would like to see the smaller clubs close down and people in already impoverished communities struggle even more when they are retrenched so the so called Big clubs can continue to charge people a fortune and chase people away from the game by asking Exhorbitant joining and annual fees. All Skukuza has done is offer affordable memberships to people who cant and wont be bullied into paying the fees that the likes of Wanderers want to charge. Play more golf is virtual. Skukuza has a clubhouse. Skukuza has also made it possible for people to get a proper NGN handicap hereby making sure that a player who used to be a single figure handicap and has not been a member of a club for a few years therefore not having an official handicap turning up at a Charity golf day or sponsored golf day and playing off a 24 and cleaning up.Wake up Mole.
posted by: Trevor Crowe on 2009/07/13
Too many choices
We play everywhere except our home course. With the amount and quality of golf courses available, who wants to be a member playing one club only and having to pay thousands for membership. With meat days everywhere and corporate days why not not make provision for virtual clubs. Visitors pay a premium as is so why charge them more. Most clubs couldn't survive if it weren't for visitors playing rounds there.
posted by: Will on 2009/07/13
Change the way golf is costed
I am also irked at the 'advantages' virtual members enjoy and using the excuse that they only play 12 to 15 times a year doesn't cut it with me. I probably play 20 times a year but I am loyal to my club (Zwartkop) and enjoy being a member there. To me it is not only about the golf but also about having a place where you can 'pop' in and enjoy a drink with friends, irrespective how often you play golf. I believe the clubs must take some blame here in that membership fees relative to the virtual club option are now out of proportion. Clubs should rather charge say R30 a round extra for members and R80 a round for virtual members,visitors etc and knock a huge chunk off the annual membership fee as compensation. That way in terms of handicaps etc they becaome more competitive, get more members, which as some one said earlier in some form or other will equate to more spend in the club. Clubs try to keep green fees down so they can attract 'feet' but I believe they are not helping their cause in the long run.
posted by: Les on 2009/07/13
Virtual or Country Member??
When I started playing golf I joined a Country Course near my holiday home and this gave me a handicap and freedom to play all courses in Cape Town.Whats wrong with this? It's all business. If Golf Clubs don't want the extra turnover, then ban visitors with these cards.Otherwise let them play. They add to the income! Makes it cheaper in the long run for the full members of clubs.
posted by: Rolff on 2009/07/13
You pays your brass!
As long as members of golf clubs are unable to cover the running costs of their clubs, meaning that their suscriptions and green fees are inadequate, these cost will have to be subsidised by "sponsored and charity tournaments" and by "virtual golf". Take your choice!
posted by: Ron Bryer on 2009/07/13
Simple...
...do away with "affiliation" fees. Visitors, whether they are members of another club or not, should pay one fee. Only genuine "Guests of members" should pay reduced fees. Suddenly you'll find it's a good thing to be a member again...
posted by: DBS on 2009/07/13
Virtual Clubs
I think all clubs should have a policy to charge virtual club members a visitors rate that makes sense and does not allow them to be able to ridicule the economic viability of "proper" membership without which golf clubs will struggle to survive not to mention golf itself when you need tournaments and events to be run, who are you going to call??
posted by: JJ Provoyeur on 2009/07/13
No to virtual clubs
I cannot aggree more with the mole.I have a friend who joined Naboomspriut GC for R500.00 PA. He has never ever been to Nabommspruit let alone play golf there.He now plays at different clubs in the JHB area and ends up paying a fraction of what I pay as a paying member of a club. Its not on.
posted by: Mark on 2009/07/13
Another Virtual member
It is about what suits ones pocket. I don't play enough golf (even though) I'd like to. And to spend the amount of money that clubs are asking even in some cases for week day membership is pricy and throwing money away. I may use the shower afterwards, but I still pay for halway house and any bar services afterwards. Clubs should look at how much they charge for membership and what they offer as part of the membership. If you want the full package, then pay for it. If you are looking for a sensible deal that can provide you with a facility to track and log your handicap with SAGA then go "virtual" Nothing stops any club from introducing an offer where I can sign up and be linked to a club in order to track my handicap. It may even lead to these "members" becoming a full member later as their golfing increases.
posted by: Jimmy on 2009/07/13
VIRTUAL GOLF CLUBS
All good and well, but then get NGN to issue a card showing "virtual" membership status which will indicate this to clubs and prevent a booking being made outside of the rules each club has relative to visitors bookings and green fees.At my club for example visitors may book after 2pm on a Thursday for the upcoming Saturday. This ensures all members have been catered for and that the club does not lose revenue due to empty tee times. The usual rule of only being allowed one game per month will prevent abuse of this system. Obviously a far higher visitors green fee applies.and allow these individuals to book tee times according to the rules stipulated by each club regarding visitors, e.g. when they may book and the green fee they need to pay.
posted by: Geoff on 2009/07/13
Yes I am a virtual Member
And Yes, I have played at Skukuza. I administer Golf Games for the company I work for - we play 2 to 3 times a month at different courses around Gauteng and outlying areas. We respect having to have an official handicap, but do not wish to pay outladish fees for one.
posted by: Gary Steyn on 2009/07/13
Virtual Golf on Condition
Virtual golf clubs do have a role to play in regularising "casual" golfers who play infrequently. However I wonder how many of their "away" scores are actually entered for handicap purposes ? I also think saving on Membership fees is OK, but then they should pay full visitors fees at clubs where that club does not actually have formal reciprocity agreement in place.
posted by: Devlyn Fraser, Umkomaas. on 2009/07/13
Vrtual Clubs
Mole, very debatable subject ! We have a situation where the SAGA is "condoning" the existance of these Clubs. I am not sure if fighting them is going to help because as you quite rightly stated, the smaller Clubs will do whatever they have to do to increase income and if you "sell" 500 memberships with limited playing rights, who cares ! Some of us traditionalist agree about the value of having a home club but if you do a survey now on why people join clubs, it is 95* purely to have a handicap. Things like leagues, championships, even AGM's is not important anymore. For Golf clubs, it is all about getting feet through the door bacause that will increase your proshop spend, your bar spend and catering spend. Rounds are defintely down across the country and Clubs will find ways of generating income and this is a fast, easy way with very little inconvenience to a Club but I am sure if you speak to a genuine Skukuza member, they cannot be happy as they are tarred with the same brush as the "virtual members" ! Personally, I think we have to embrace it and work towards a model that will suit everyone ! Let's face it, it is becomoing seriously expensive joining a Club and paying annual fees in excess of R6,000 per annum. Think of it, R6,000 per annum, R500 per month. If you play every week it is R125 per week plus your member greenfees of R125 i.e. R250 per week...you can play as a non-member every week and it will not cost you R250 per week !
posted by: marwei on 2009/07/13
Yes for Virtual
Main reason is probably the 12 to 15 times I am playing a year. At one stage I was playing weekly as a full member at a club but the fees are now simply too high, especially the joining fees. Water is becoming too expensive for the amount of golf courses in SA.
posted by: Dick D on 2009/07/13
Interesting and Valid
You make a valid argument for and against, the problem is i only play probably 10 times a year, mostly in corporate days, don't want to play on weekends. But want and need a valid handicap (i am currently 19, 14) for when i choose to play. To end up paying say R8k a year at say Dainfern (where i live) is just plain stoopid! The golf clubs need to get creative on membership options to change this problem, until then "rock on virtual".
posted by: Dave on 2009/07/13
Yes I am a virtual member
As I am not a regular golfer my club fees were uneconomical. I play 10 rounds a year of which 7 are corporate days and 3 are while on golf tour with mates. Virtual membership allows me to compete with an official handicap.
posted by: Leon C. on 2009/07/13
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